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[Callers] Itty-bitty dances, triplets, Timing Correction for David's Triplet #5

by Paul Wilde via Callers

Quick correction on timing: David's Triplet #5 David Smuckler A-1 1s cast down own side to bottom, Back up ctr to cast w/ 2s A-2 All do si do P 1 1/4 into way line of 6, balance Balance & Al R w/ P 1/2 into new wave & B-1 Bal, Pul by P by R into hey for 6 B-2 P Gypsy & Swing, face up Thanks to Tom for pointing this out. And Levi Jackson Rag is by Pat Shaw Thanks to all for the great dance suggestions. Paul

10 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Gypsy Wrap-Up

by Winston, Alan P. via Callers

Very nicely done! -- Alan On 11/2/2015 3:31 PM, Amy Wimmer via Callers wrote: > Hi All, > > I finally composed a response to the original complainant. Here it is, > followed by an almost instant reply from him (yes, it is a male): > > Hello Mr.__________, > > Thank you for letting us know about your experience at our dance. I am > glad our community was so welcoming and friendly to you. I hope you > remember that in the future. > > As for the term "gypsy," it has been used in contra dancing for > decades, and is not my invention. I am sorry you were offended by my > use and description of it. It is my habit to let dancers know the name > and author of each dance I call, and "gypsy" is in the title of that > dance. I regret my description of the move as "flirty." I thank you > for reminding me that some people are uncomfortable with that, and I > will no longer suggest it. As for the name of the move itself, you are > correct in that it has never been meant as a pejorative. I cannot, > however, change it on my own. Contra is a folk dance and the folk > process takes time. There is no governing body in charge of naming the > terms used in contra dancing. When someone invents a new move they > give it a name and it gradually works its way into the vernacular. > > I can assure you that callers nationwide are discussing this and other > terms we use which we are learning are offensive to others. We are > endeavoring to change what we can, but you might imagine that coming > to a consensus between many hundreds of callers is neither swift nor > sure. This is especially true, given the lack of a governing body. > > For my part, I have decided to remove the term "gypsy" from my calling > and am searching for a substitute. It is not in my power to rename > dances. At Emerald City Contra Dance we book approximately 25 > different callers every year, from across the United States and > beyond. I am just one. Please understand that if you return to our > dance you may hear that term used again, until such time as awareness > has spread as far and wide as the callers themselves. > > Sincerely, > > Amy Wimmer > Caller and ECCD Organizer > > His response: > > Thank you for your very thoughtful and informative response. I feel > much better about continuing to attend, hearing that there is an > awareness of this issue and conversations happening about it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

10 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Gypsy Wrap-Up

by Patricia Campbell via Callers

Wonderful! Beautifully written letter and a positive response. Patricia Patricia Campbell, Dance Caller http://www.countrydancecaller.com *"Celebrating Community through Traditional Dance and Music"* "bcc:" for privacy <http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~watrous/bcc-for-privacy.html> - please observe these guidelines when including me in your group emails On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Amy Wimmer via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hi All, > > I finally composed a response to the original complainant. Here it is, > followed by an almost instant reply from him (yes, it is a male): > > Hello Mr.__________, > > Thank you for letting us know about your experience at our dance. I am > glad our community was so welcoming and friendly to you. I hope you > remember that in the future. > > As for the term "gypsy," it has been used in contra dancing for decades, > and is not my invention. I am sorry you were offended by my use and > description of it. It is my habit to let dancers know the name and author > of each dance I call, and "gypsy" is in the title of that dance. I regret > my description of the move as "flirty." I thank you for reminding me that > some people are uncomfortable with that, and I will no longer suggest it. > As for the name of the move itself, you are correct in that it has never > been meant as a pejorative. I cannot, however, change it on my own. Contra > is a folk dance and the folk process takes time. There is no governing body > in charge of naming the terms used in contra dancing. When someone invents > a new move they give it a name and it gradually works its way into the > vernacular. > > I can assure you that callers nationwide are discussing this and other > terms we use which we are learning are offensive to others. We are > endeavoring to change what we can, but you might imagine that coming to a > consensus between many hundreds of callers is neither swift nor sure. This > is especially true, given the lack of a governing body. > > For my part, I have decided to remove the term "gypsy" from my calling and > am searching for a substitute. It is not in my power to rename dances. At > Emerald City Contra Dance we book approximately 25 different callers every > year, from across the United States and beyond. I am just one. Please > understand that if you return to our dance you may hear that term used > again, until such time as awareness has spread as far and wide as the > callers themselves. > > Sincerely, > > Amy Wimmer > Caller and ECCD Organizer > > His response: > > Thank you for your very thoughtful and informative response. I feel much > better about continuing to attend, hearing that there is an awareness of > this issue and conversations happening about it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

10 years, 1 month

[Callers] Gypsy Wrap-Up

by Amy Wimmer via Callers

Hi All, I finally composed a response to the original complainant. Here it is, followed by an almost instant reply from him (yes, it is a male): Hello Mr.__________, Thank you for letting us know about your experience at our dance. I am glad our community was so welcoming and friendly to you. I hope you remember that in the future. As for the term "gypsy," it has been used in contra dancing for decades, and is not my invention. I am sorry you were offended by my use and description of it. It is my habit to let dancers know the name and author of each dance I call, and "gypsy" is in the title of that dance. I regret my description of the move as "flirty." I thank you for reminding me that some people are uncomfortable with that, and I will no longer suggest it. As for the name of the move itself, you are correct in that it has never been meant as a pejorative. I cannot, however, change it on my own. Contra is a folk dance and the folk process takes time. There is no governing body in charge of naming the terms used in contra dancing. When someone invents a new move they give it a name and it gradually works its way into the vernacular. I can assure you that callers nationwide are discussing this and other terms we use which we are learning are offensive to others. We are endeavoring to change what we can, but you might imagine that coming to a consensus between many hundreds of callers is neither swift nor sure. This is especially true, given the lack of a governing body. For my part, I have decided to remove the term "gypsy" from my calling and am searching for a substitute. It is not in my power to rename dances. At Emerald City Contra Dance we book approximately 25 different callers every year, from across the United States and beyond. I am just one. Please understand that if you return to our dance you may hear that term used again, until such time as awareness has spread as far and wide as the callers themselves. Sincerely, Amy Wimmer Caller and ECCD Organizer His response: Thank you for your very thoughtful and informative response. I feel much better about continuing to attend, hearing that there is an awareness of this issue and conversations happening about it.

10 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Gypsy perception

by Yoyo Zhou via Callers

Hi folks. I was so ready to be done with this discussion, but. Regardless of your views on the matter at hand, the goal of this discussion list is to be a place for respectful exchange of ideas. After all, we welcome even the most naive questions from the most novice callers, because we are here to support one another, not tear each other down. Do you respect your fellow callers and email writers? You don't have to agree with their views. All you need is good faith. Unkind speculation on their motivations is - at best - irrelevant meta-meta-discussion. (Not about "gypsy", not even about the discussion of it, but about the people discussing it.) You are welcome to think these thoughts, but they contribute nothing to our discussion; please don't air them here. Thanks, Yoyo Zhou On Nov 2, 2015 05:08, "Donald Perley via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > It often seems like people on contra email lists and facebook get more > joy from seeking problems to fix it through political correctness than > they do from dancing itself. > > > > On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Tom Hinds via Callers > <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > No Aahz my logic is broken. Our perceptions and experiences are > different. > > > > You said, > > > >> The question isn't whether using "gypsy" generates negative stereotypes > >> but whether using the word reminds people of existing negative > stereotypes > >> and whether the people referred to by the word have negative reactions > to > >> the use of the word. > > > > > > Aahz, you can define the discussion in a narrow way but I prefer to keep > it > > more open. > > > > This may surprise you but I have a favorable view of the Romani. In the > > '80s I danced Flamenco and developed a deep respect for them. More > recently > > I saw a documentary on their culture that centered around a performance > of > > them from various countries. So my view of them has been positive! > Until > > this discussion. > > > > To be honest, the more I read from those who don't want to use the word > > gypsy (in private from some), the less favorable these people are in my > mind > > which I don't want. I realize that your intentions are good but with me > > you've accomplished the opposite of what you want. Perhaps you should > > consider not using their name in the same sentences with derogatory > terms. > > Don't underestimate the power of association. > > > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > Callers mailing list > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >

10 years, 1 month

[Callers] I

by David Kaynor via Callers

Sent from my edseeeesea

10 years, 1 month

[Callers] Gypsy Synopsis

by Erik Hoffman via Callers

On the subject of gypsies and language, I've enjoyed reading the myriad comments, and find myself feeling ambiguous (which I define as feeling very strongly both ways). And, I know it's been thrashed about and we've a request for acknowledging that we are unlikely to change any opinions on this. That said: * I have had this discussion with a number people in the past, about the very strong negative connotations of the word "Gypsy." Ambivalent as I am, I do think we should look for a replacement word. * I thought I'd collect all the words that have been suggested so far (unless I missed one or two) in one place. Here it is: No Hand Turn No Hand Allemande (and I do think Allemande comes from "The German," a dance) Dance Around, or Walk Around Face to Face Do Si Do Bine (binary stars -- snippet below) Nose-to-Nose Do Si Do Dance Around - or Dance About Orbit Around - or Orbit About Loop Eddy Vortex Swirl Spiral Eyes or "Take Eyes" Holding Eyes Eyeballs Facing Maypole Hands Off Face à Face (facey-face...) Right (Left) Shoulder (without the G-word) Cyclone (though mentioned with a complaint - too "violent") * I like "Single File with a Smile" to replace "Indian Style." Many Indians don't like the moniker "Native American," and vice versa -- America is a name that comes from a European explorer, in some ways more insulting than the misconstrued "Indians," from the name given by a murderous European explorer... It is good, I think, to stop using words that come from stereotyped images of an oppressed or victimized people. * When thinking of our positive feelings about the word -- "happy, colorful," think about people of the slave-holding South remembered with great delight how "Nigras" were always happy, and how warm and wonderful it was when they were slaves. Of course, they rarely considered that that "happiness" stemmed from fear -- the fear of bodily injury, jail, or even lynching... * We are teaching dance in a public forum. Dog breeders use the word "bitch" regularly -- no problem. Start calling a woman that word, and the connotation is different. A chink in a chain, a dike to hold back water or in a rock formation, etc. are all used in specialized situations. I run into a similar problem as I love playing the Jews Harp... Our use of the word Gypsy in a public forum could be said to have that specialized meaning. But it can be construed to have those negative connotations. * Eric Black says he uses "Gents & Ladies," never, "men & women." Years ago I stopped using Ladies & Gents since their roots are steeped in classism, and we live in a severely class society -- even though we pretend we don't. Be that as it may, I started using Ladies & Gents again when I realized most of us don't have those connotations associated with those words. Now I've gone gender free, and use ravens & larks. But when I was young we used "him," and "he" to mean "everyone. We did notice the affect this had on young women as promoting that sense of exclusion that still dominates our culture. Most of us now say "he and she," or just "she", and it has changed how some of us think about the power of women. Language does make a difference. Much of this came about from discussions on how the words I choose to use affect some. Most of are "unaffected," by the use of certain words. Or at least we don't perceive an affect of the use of certain words. It's like those of us who are White often don't know the scrutiny Black people are subjected to throughout their everyday lives. Or the majority of us men don't live with the fear and degradation women are subjected to. It is important to understand how our language affects those around us, especially from the podium. Well, enough for now, as that's more than two-cents worth... ~erik hoffman oakland, ca The Snippet on from Richard Fischer (richardallenfischer(a)verizon.net) "Bine": > I have a suggestion for a new word to replace "gypsy." My word is "bine" and I derive it from > "binary stars" which, especially if they are of similar mass, circle each other as in our dance > move. I consulted with an astrophysicist friend, who told me that under certain circumstances > binary stars may be "tidally locked," that is, facing each other as they orbit about each other. > (Our moon is tidally locked, but in the earth-moon case it's not a mutual thing.) > > "Bine" can be used as a verb and a noun, it's one syllable and easy to say, and its etymology is > known. (And some dancers might enjoy the image). > > As others have said, I too have appreciated this thoughtful discussion. It is hard to know when > to retire an established term that has been used without intention to offend anyone, but I know > many of us are considering doing so. So I thought I'd put my suggestion out there.

10 years, 1 month

[Callers] The ongoing gypsy discussion

by Kalia Kliban via Callers

Just out of curiosity, since I had a gig scheduled while this discussion was going on, I tried substituting the phrase "right/left shoulders around" for "gypsy." I had not taught the move in the beginners session. The first dance this came up in had a neighbors gypsy 1-1/2. I said "neighbors right shoulders around once and a half," the dancers all did it, easy peasy. It's not too hard to remember to substitute the term, and will get easier as it goes along. I called 2 dances today, the Sebastopol English dance and the Petaluma contra. I had a few "gypsy halfway" moments at the English but no full gypsies. Several at the contra and I found the different terminology to cause not the tiniest ripple on the floor. It was seamless. Kalia

10 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Gypsy / "Redneck"

by John Meechan via Callers

We’ve had very few opinions, other than heresay, about gipsies in the UK. I have never heard the term gipsy used as a pejorative for Romany gipsies, in fact their national body is called the Gipsy Council. www.gipsy-association.co.uk John Meechan Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Ron Blechner via Callers Sent: 01 November 2015 19:38 To: Tom Hinds Cc: callers Subject: Re: [Callers] Gypsy / "Redneck" "who on this list believe that contra dancers have a negative view of the Romani people because of the word gypsy?" Over the last few days, as this conversation has spilled out onto a few forms of social media, I have now heard specific stories about people who are Roma and/or have Roma heritage who are folk dancers in dance forms that use "gypsy" as a term, and are offended directly. As to your question, do you consider "negative" to include "reinforcing stereotypes"? Maybe? What if we had a dance move called "redneck". Sure, there's plenty of find country folks in America who proudly self-describe as a "redneck". There are songs written about them. There are people who dress up for Halloween as them. etc. Does that mean that there aren't also plenty of people who have been called "redneck" as a slur against the stereotype of "dumb, rural, ignorant yokels"? I find the parallels compelling enough where I'm now seriously leaning off the fence... -Ron Blechner On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: In my opinion the offended women actually helped spread a stereotype she didn't like. Who on this list knew that Romani women had a reputation for being (I can't remember, was it) sexual? Not me. Okay, it was the caller she complained to who put it out there, but she started it. Should the caller feel defensive or should the caller turn the issue around if it's appropriate? I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WANT TO KNOW, who on this list believe that contra dancers have a negative view of the Romani people because of the word gypsy? Anyone? For me the more important issue is education. I learned another tidbit about the Romani people. Yes I understand how people can be sensitive, but perhaps this woman needs to learn something about us before jumping to conclusions. Tom _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

10 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] dances in unusual formations

by Leslie Gotfrit via Callers

Here is is one people have a lot of fun with and it's a scatter set that has a gypsy (which you can debate replacing with one of the many discussed alternatives.) Accretion Reel by Chris Page (I'm very loose about numbers in a group. ) Groups of four (or 5 or 6 or whatever) A1 balance the ring of four and scatter (balance in, out, in, kaboom) A2 catch someone's eye, gypsy/gyre and swing B1 promenade and find another couple ( or two or three) B2 circle left, circle right Leslie Gotfrit

10 years, 1 month

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